How do you get recommended by AI search results?

Andy Crestodina says most marketers chase the wrong goal, being visible in AI search, when the real game is becoming the brand AI recommends.

Quick Answer

• AI search isn't a list of options, it's a recommendation engine, so the goal shifts from being seen to being chosen.
• YouTube is one of the few places to put your own voice into AI's training without a community policing it.
• Change your goal from traffic to visibility, then to recommendation, and let YouTube do the heavy lifting.

Why visibility is the wrong target

Andy's reframe is sharper than the standard "show up in AI search" pitch. People aren't using AI to scan a list of options. They're using it to get a single recommendation.

"The real question isn't how to be visible in AI search results. It's how to get recommended by AI." — Andy Crestodina

That changes the whole optimization stack. Being indexed is table stakes. Being the one name AI suggests after a ten-minute buyer conversation requires something else: enough proof points, stories, and evidence that AI can confidently vouch for your brand.

Andy points at YouTube as the leverage move. AI search pulls from places like Reddit and Wikipedia, which punish self-promotion. YouTube doesn't. You can publish your own voice there, on camera, with tone and body language that build trust faster than text. AI engines train on the language inside YouTube videos. Google promotes YouTube because Google owns it. So the brand willing to hit record gets a microphone the community-driven platforms won't give them.

The piece most marketers miss: zero-click marketing isn't a death sentence. YouTubers never cared about clicks. They cared about engagement, visibility, and being a helpful internet citizen. Change your goal from traffic to visibility, and a whole new channel opens up.

Frequently Asked Questions

What does "AI recommendation" actually mean?

It means being the brand AI suggests when a buyer has a ten-minute conversation with it about who to hire. Visibility is being in the list. Recommendation is being the answer. Andy frames it as word-of-mouth marketing, but from an artificial mouth.

Why is YouTube uniquely useful for AI search visibility?

Three reasons. Google surfaces YouTube videos aggressively. AI models train on the language inside them. And unlike Reddit or Wikipedia, you can publish your own voice without a community flaming you for self-promotion.

How does video help you get cited by AI?

Video is a more intimate format, with tone of voice and body language that build trust faster. AI engines ingest video transcripts as training data, so the proof points you put on camera become things AI can recall and recommend.

Full Clip Transcript

Andy: I use it every day for audits of things. What's missing from this? How could this perform better? How could this align better with the reader or the audience? So I don't really care about using AI for efficiencies. I care about it for finding deficiencies and creating higher forming stuff. In the search side, I think that the term AI visibility is sadly short-sighted because that assumes that AI is like traditional search and that people are just using it to see options. But I don't think that's how people are using it. People are using it to get recommendations rather than just see options. So I think the real question isn't how to be visible in AI search results. It's how to get recommended by AI. So these are points of view that are just my own and that I encourage others to consider. And it's just really a lot of trial and error that got me there, Dane, it's the long road.

Dane: Yeah, well, you're definitely putting in the reps and so you're earning the knowledge. I also have my own agenda as I've looked at it through my own lens, no pun intended, about what does this mean for me? And as a video expert and a video proponent, what has stood out to me is the search results are coming from places that are like community-focused, like Wikipedia and Reddit and places where like, you better not put your opinions out there or try and promote your brand because you're gonna get bit real hard by the community. But there's places like YouTube, Google's the largest search engine still and so like, you can use YouTube to put your own content out there, drive that conversation through like, video thought leadership that is not relying on the community. This is your own voice. You really can have a microphone there as it were to kind of put out your own agenda. And so like, I'm like ringing the bell over here saying, hey guys, look over here. This is something you're not thinking about. This is really the antidote to the AI slop that's out there and the AI search results. Does that hold water to you? Does that sound right? Just prima facia right there?

Andy: Heck yeah, I love it. And the people who are freaked out about the zero click, this buzz right now, zero click marketing, YouTube is never cared about clicks. It's all about engagement and visibility and being a helpful useful internet citizen. So I'm a huge fan of that. I also published directly under LinkedIn. So living on a platform is what Big Tech wants you to do. And I think you can absolutely meet your goals. You just have to change your goal from traffic to visibility. YouTube is an incredible engagement. It's a huge opportunity. Google will always surface YouTube videos. YouTube videos are things that AI can train on. It's one of Google's advantages in the AI areas that they have all this language that they can train on. So I would 100% recommend that to anybody. Video is a more intimate format. You get tone of voice, body language. It builds trust faster than others. You can publish, you can embed those other places on articles that get traffic from whichever sources. And I agree with you completely. It's a big missed opportunity. People just don't want to hit the record button. I don't know what's stopping them.

Dane: Well, I think it's that for sure, one thing. And for me, this is like, there's a sea change that's happening of like the younger generations who grew up with social media and are video natives. They're going to be able to run with that. But the older generations like us, we did go through the pandemic together. And we're doing a web video right now. So I would hope that we're comfortable enough to hit record. And I mean, we're going to be on webcams all day anyway. Might as well make it work for you. So I don't know. I guess it's partly that. But I think there's another piece to this where people are used to thinking about videos like this premium expensive hard to do thing. And I think that is the case. But as I've talked about this and looked at this for a while, there's this other thing that's happened. There's another lane where we have this low cost or even free video potential. And you can put it out there sustainably over time and make that start to build up this body of content. That by the way, video can be repurposed as it's got the visuals, it's got audio and text and the form of transcriptions. For me, it's sort of like the master format to rule them all. That now once you have AI to repurpose this stuff and tools like Descript for editing, I think this thing just opened up recently. And I don't think a lot of people are getting this. And so I thought if we just put our heads together, we might be able to educate some people.

Full Interview Transcript

Dane: Hello everybody, I am joined today by the great and powerful Andy Crestodina who for me has been one of the people at the forefront of using AI and marketing and sort of dealing with the flood of AI content and what are we gonna do about this? The old things aren't working. that's, he's the guy I wanted to talk to today. And I thought if I'm gonna talk to him, I might as well share it with you guys so everybody can benefit together. And hopefully Andy gets a little more exposure, not like he needs it. anyway.

That's sort of the big idea of what I wanted to talk about. I'll just kind of kick it to you to start off. Like I've been following you talking about this for a little while now. Like where are you at with this today? Like your latest learnings, this AI menace search results, where is it the sort of top level for you today?

Andy: I come at it just from my own point of view and my own experiments and testing a few conclusions that are you don't hear every day in social streams. One is that AI is better for doing gap analysis than for doing writing. I use it every day for audits of things. What's missing from this? How could this perform better? How could this align better with the reader or the audience?

So I don't really care about using AI for efficiencies. I care about it for finding deficiencies and creating higher forming stuff. In the search side, I think that the term AI visibility is sadly short-sighted because that assumes that AI is like traditional search and that people are just using it to see options. But I don't think that's how people are using it. People are using it to get recommendations rather than just see options. So I think the real question isn't how to be visible in AI search results. It's how to get recommended by AI.

So these are things, these are points of view that are just my own and that I encourage others to consider. and it's just really a lot of. Prylon era that got me there, Dane. It's the long road.

Dane: Yeah, well, you're definitely putting in the reps and so you're earning the knowledge. I also have my own agenda as I look at it through my own lens, no pun intended, about what does this mean for me? And as a video expert and a video proponent, what has stood out to me is the search results are coming from places that are like community focused, like Wikipedia and Reddit and places where like you better not put your opinions out there or try and promote your brand because you're going to get

you're going to get bit real, hard by the community. But there's places like YouTube, you know, Google's the largest search engine still. And so like you can use YouTube to put your own content out there, drive that conversation through like video thought leadership that is, you know, not relying on the community. This is your own voice. So you really can have a microphone there as it were to kind of put out your own agenda. And so like, I'm like ringing the bell over here saying, Hey guys, look over here. This is something you're not thinking about.

This is really the antidote to the AI slop that's out there in the AI search results. Does that hold water to you? Does that sound right? Just prima facie right there.

Andy: Heck yeah, I love it. And the people who are freaked out about the zero click, this buzzword now, zero click marketing, YouTubers never cared about clicks. It's all about engagement and visibility and being a helpful, useful internet citizen. So I'm a huge fan of that. I also publish directly on the LinkedIn. So living on a platform is what big tech wants you to do. And I think you can absolutely meet your goals. just have to change your goal from traffic to visibility. YouTube is an

Incredible engagement. It's a huge opportunity. Google will always surface YouTube videos. YouTube videos are things that AI can train on. It's one of Google's advantages in the AI era is that they have all these all this language that they can train on. So I would 100 % recommend that to anybody. Video is a more intimate format. You get tone of voice and body language. It builds trust faster than others. You can publish. You can embed those other places on articles that get traffic from whichever sources.

No, I'm I agree with you completely. It's a big missed opportunity. People just don't want to hit the record button. I don't know what's stopping him.

Dane: Well, I think it's that for sure. One thing. And for me, this is like, there's a sea change that's happening of like the younger generations who grew up with social media and are video natives. They're gonna be able to run with that. But the older generations like us, we did go through the pandemic together and we're doing web video right now. So I would hope that we're comfortable enough to hit record. And I mean, we're gonna be on webcams all day anyway. Might as well make it work for you.

Andy: All day. Yep.

Dane: So I don't know, I guess it's partly that, but I think there's another piece to this where people are used to thinking about video as like this premium, expensive, hard to do thing. And I think that is the case, but as I've talked about this and looked at this for a while, there's this other thing that's happened. There's another lane where we have this low cost or even free video potential and you can...

put it out there sustainably over time and make that start to build up this body of content that by the way, video can be repurposed as, you know, it's got the visuals, it's got audio and text in the form of transcriptions. For me, it's sort of like the master format to rule them all that now once you have AI to repurpose this stuff and tools like Descript for editing, like I think the, this thing just opened up recently and I don't think a lot of people are getting this. And so I thought if we just put our heads together, we might be able to educate some people.

Andy: Mm-hmm.

Dane: And I got a feeling there's some CEOs sitting around boardrooms thinking, what are we going to do to show up in these search results? And I think we're telling you what to do. Unless there's like a better option, which for some people, video is not going to make sense. Like if you're in pharmaceuticals or something heavily regulated, you probably can't just go off the fly. Like we're just talking right here. You probably need to run that past legal. But for a lot of these companies, B2B SaaS companies, I feel like this opportunity is just sitting right there.

Andy: Yeah.

Dane: And so like as far as the other options, do you see better options than that? I mean, I'm very biased here.

Andy: Well. I agree with you today more than I would have a couple of years ago because I always thought of repurposing as something where you go into analytics, see what your top performing content was, and then make a video for that for that thing. But what you just described is video first and I I did that just like days ago. It was very effective. I've been giving presentations on how to build custom GPTs, which is a highly recommended thing. It's fantastic. It's very empowering. So. I took the presentation recorded it as a video.

I worked hard on those and it took hours of course, but that was my standards and there was a problem with it. So I had to fix it anyway. So now I have this video, this YouTube video, and then I took the transcript out of there, gave that to ChachiPT, asked ChachiPT to make an outline. I don't want to do, they'll use it for writing. And I had this huge head start on the writing piece. It was, I think, you know, it's easier to talk than to type. Your language when you're talking is just more forthright and informal and direct and personal, which is all the hallmarks of good writing.

So I think to go from video to text is easier than going from text to video somehow. So I think part of what you're saying there is like a video first thing. The other stuff for sure, there's, you know, thought leadership will forever be the most differentiated format for content, especially now in the AI era because AI doesn't have opinions or care about anything. So if you have a point of view and you share your perspectives and take a tiny stand on whatever topic.

That is far more memorable and engaging than just another best practices post, even though I write millions of best practices post. So thought leadership, okay, how does that land? This is how, this is the place, right, where it's gonna land best. there is, it is all powerful. The internet crushed many categories like classified ads and there's lots of super disrupted.

Dane: Yeah.

Andy: parts of the world, but video is not. It's totally safe and secure. It's not going anywhere.

Dane: Yeah, yeah. And I think the other thing I'm curious, your opinion on like what would be best practices in your mind, because you're clearly like the website design guy. You have best practices for many years about how to design your website and the best kinds of content. So if you do adopt like a video first strategy, I am very confident it's gonna help you perform better, but you probably have some better metrics about and.

case studies about how that might look. if you're doing video first content and you put that in your blog posts or you put that on landing pages or conversion pages for gated content, things like that, what's your sense just high level about how that video is going to perform on websites for you?

Andy: Mm.

Andy: Well, I think that there are two kinds of pages and two kinds of videos and they are very separate and should remain separate. The conversion focused pages, the key service pages, the home page, the about page, these pages are designed to sell and promote the brand and persuade and build trust. And for those I would never use YouTube as the player. I'd record the video, I'd probably focus a bit more on the production quality. But I think those should be done. Those should be hosted and streamed through a pro player like I don't know, like a Vimeo or something.

Because YouTube has its own agenda and it will. You can't remove that little bug in the corner that you know if they go over to YouTube, they're never coming back. So I don't like and it shows a number of views, which if you're on someone's about video and you click to watch it on YouTube and you see there's like 22 views, you're like this brand is not. You know that's like negative social proof so. Video yes all day for content marketing. Record videos. They're native on YouTube. Promote them in YouTube and I'll and I grow an audience there.

Embed them in your at the top near the top for your or the related article or put them in all kinds of articles if they're relevant and that will improve engagement. Everyone can see in analytics fix submitted to set up, but there's reports where you can see the change in engagement for people who did and did not trigger the video view event. It's called and you'll see that there's just lots more engagement for people when they watch the time on page is like five times longer. Of course, not weird, but.

That and embedding videos on your into your content also juices your views and supports. You know, that's what YouTube wants, so it can jumpstart your channel. But I really think that that the trust building content marketing videos aren't really appropriate. see YouTube embedded on homepages. And then when the video ends, it's like, you know, the comedians I like to watch and like that. Why? Why do I? There should never be a user experience where cat videos and their favorite comics are.

in the player on their homepage, it's just not the right player.

Dane: Yeah, it's someone who's not thought through the strategy or they did it as an afterthought. Someone was talking about YouTube being the place where corporate videos go to die. It's sort of like the graveyard where like, we'll just throw it on YouTube. Like, that's not really thought out strategy.

Andy: Yeah. Not only are they bad for the page, but they're bad on YouTube because YouTube isn't a place where people go to watch promotional videos. You you want to a YouTube channel with a bunch of testimonial videos. Some of it is at the art and all powerful format. It might be like there are no websites with enough testimonial videos. It's like one of the most powerful things that changes the messenger to the audience. You know, it's the best message of the best messenger. It's the most upgraded format. It's the most, you know, power. It's it's.

Dane: Right.

Andy: It's evidence and proof that they're fantastic. But who goes to YouTube to watch that? Yeah, I would never put a man.

Dane: Yeah, someone on YouTube is watching everything, I guess, but yeah, your point is well taken. I've had the experience where like, because video is still kind of new for a lot of people and like it's changed so much pretty quickly, it's seeming like as a content afterthought frequently, where it's not really been part of the plan from the beginning about how are we going to do content in general? Cause people are, they're like, yeah, we're going to do blogs. We're going to do web page. We're going to do some social media, but

haven't really thought through the video part and I'm curious now that we're both like rah rah for video and you're making websites out there how does that look in like a modern era now with AI how do we plan for a website that's gonna have content on it it's gonna have video but we don't necessarily know what that's gonna be yet because it's gonna be an ongoing developing thing what's your sense of like best practices there for planning for an ongoing content plan that includes video

Andy: Well, true confession for me even like YouTube is is a I'm being a bit opportunistic there. I don't have a publishing cadence. I will I make about one a month. It's I I'm making them when I have time. It's not like my primary channel. Bill Polizzi says, you know, pick two and I have a hot tube blog on my website and on LinkedIn and I do presentations and those are my main two so.

Dane: Mm-hmm.

Andy: I think it's perfectly fine and appropriate for brands to choose that like we're going to do this thing and it's kind of opportunistic and we're going to turn the know we do webinars and hey they kind of make podcasts. Let's also put them there like that. That's I think we need to give ourselves some grades on that but specific to AI which you also asked is I think really a key question because AI is ingesting all the things that we publish on our on our websites. AI is learning about our brands and deciding whether not to recommend your brand when they after consuming all of your you know scanning and

Dane: Mm-hmm.

Andy: in crawling all your pages, but if there are key messages. Inside the YouTube video, so let's say we are a healthcare company and we've got. 2000 patents. And that's mentioned only in the video chat. LGBT is not going to be able to get that, so I would go through. You can make a. Prompt for this. Take the transcripts out of your conversion focused videos and have it pulled from those any proof points that don't also appear on your pages and just make sure that stuff is also text.

Dane: Mm.

Andy: because the likelihood that AI recommends your brand when the visitor has a 10 minute conversation about who to reach out to, the key to winning that recommendation and what I think of as like word of mouth, reminds me of like a brand channel. It's like a word of mouth marketing, but word of an artificial mouth. It's kind of how I've been thinking about it. Yeah, but it has to get all of those happy stories, case studies, data, statistics, testimonials, the awards you've won, those logos.

Dane: Mm-hmm.

Dane: Yeah.

Dane: Mm-hmm.

Andy: Anything that's there that isn't scannable for the AI because it's also text that it can read, you're hiding it from the models. So be careful and make sure that the strongest statements and evidence includes in stories in those videos are also somehow ingestible as text.

Dane: Right. And so that to me starts to sound suspiciously like a video first content model where you're recording and then using those transcripts and AI to repopulate those pages and make it AI findable. Right? Yeah.

Andy: Yeah, yeah, I mean when constructing a page, the job of the page is to emulate a sales call and to guide the visitor through a series of answers to the top questions. Objection handling for the reasons they wouldn't click a call to action or hire you for your services and then tons of evidence and proof points. So answers, evidence and calls to action are three key elements of any high converting page. So you're going to construct that probably with a bunch of careful research and thought and maybe reviewing.

recordings of sales calls and make sure that these don't miss anything for gaps again. AI for gap analysis, find deficiencies. And anything that requires. Stronger. You know an upgraded format you need to move those into videos. It's like explainers. Why are explainers so effective? It's because some of that stuff really hard to explain with text. Anything anything anything that has requires more trust or is surprising or comes from a point of view.

Or is a detailed description or chosen entire process. Those are going to lend themselves very well to video. And so maybe in when you build a page that emulates a sales call, you're going to purposely pick out a few areas that need to need the, you know, the higher, the higher engagement format like video.

Dane: So I'm also curious, like your sense, are we headed to a place where websites are not gonna be a thing anymore? I mean, I get the sense like it could kind of spin that way, but we do need a place to park the brand somewhere. Although maybe that's not necessarily true, even though it feels true. I don't know, what do you think about where we're headed?

Andy: We we saw that question when apps after the iPhone came out on apps became very popular. We saw that question when Facebook came out and people were asking why they still need a website. The whole conversation is happening in social media that there are social. Our Facebook page is going to be our company website, so. Over the years, it's just been a very durable format and I think AI doesn't really threaten websites because if your job is to train AI to be a sales rep for your brand.

And that's basically what I've been saying, like train AI to be a sales rep for your brand. Your best chance of doing that is the one place online where you have unlimited time and space to talk about anything you want. So, you know, there's two brands. One has no website or a very thin content, few pages. And the other one has a very detailed website with 600 pages that with tons of case studies and, and, and detail and answers. One of those companies is going to have a much better chance of getting recommended by AI of ranking in traditional search.

converting visitors into leads. I just it's really I can't even I would have changed Dana. I love the question. I don't mind it at all. But I would have I would be doing something else today if I thought that there was an end of life coming for the visual internet. Not not feeling it.

Dane: Yeah, that's what I was curious about if you're starting to invest time elsewhere, but it sounds like that's a day that won't really come and I see the reasons now. What do you think?

Andy: Well, but I do though. mean, because of the declining click through rates from Google search for all those, you know, I'm less worried than I used to be about targeting these information intent queries. And five years ago, I started syndicating my articles onto LinkedIn and it's, I don't believe in zero click marketing. think that term is totally overhyped, but the, when you, when you live on a platform, like we said a minute ago about YouTube, you are the platform wants you to be successful.

YouTube promotes creators. LinkedIn promotes newsletters. Google does not promote websites. So I have literally like 10 times the visibility that I ever had before in the so-called zero click era. no, I think we do need to consider where our audience spends time and how to be present in those places. But that doesn't mean that I don't also need to have a place where these live in their original format, the most detailed format, the place that I can link back to.

the place that I can link to from my email nurture sequences and other content and from presentations. So there's an annotation, but I would not recommend anybody give up on their blog.

Dane: Yeah, definitely. Okay. So I want to kind of circle back to the point that we were dancing around before the idea of content marketers knowing the video is a good thing, but not wanting to hit record. And I think there's been some AI paralysis too of like, wait, let's just see where things land before we start making a plan about how we're going to do this. I want to rattle their cage a little bit. Like, do you feel like they're not getting the message that the content can be the antidote to the

is a sort of summarized AI search results. Are they getting that message?

Andy: No, they're not. the alarm is being sounded by SEOs. I want to remind everybody here that SEOs are single channel marketers. They are focused on just one panel, search. Your audience is not necessarily only using search. There's more to life than rankings. mean, that's, what about email? What about social? I just told you my visibility is like way higher than it ever used to be.

Simply because I'm using other other channels. So yeah, if search were the only channel you could say that maybe content marketing isn't, you know, a long term sustainable practice. So yeah, I think you have to think more broadly. You have to think about how content can support the sales cycle. Like you can send it directly to prospects. Our content can be thought leadership. How you can write for other people, not just yourself. You can put content all over the web. You can write for. Is there a?

Is there an industry publication or a trade magazine or there's a zero blog or you know, how can you? How can you be in the places where your audience is already spending time? That's content as well. But no, it's the narrow minded single channel only on my website type marketers that are that are thinking like you know SEO is dead. Content marketing is dead. Websites are dead. There's way more out there than just organic click through rates to blog posts. That's a tiny slice of what we're doing here.

Dane: Yeah. So yeah, so what's it going to take for these people to come around? I keep thinking that there's just going to be like an attrition. They're going to like lose business and start to do layoffs. And at some point the alarm bell will be sounded enough where someone's going to take some action. it's concerning to me that it doesn't seem like the message is getting across.

Andy: Yeah, I really don't know if. I think that. What often happens like over the years we both been doing this a long time. This is 25 years in digital for me. What usually happens is that leaders, whether or not their marketers. Become exposed to just through their own consumption. Very effective content programs. Then they start asking different questions of their of their marketing teams. Hey, what are we doing with webinars? You know or whatever the channel is.

Hey, I keep hearing this on this podcast, you know, or how come, you know, our prospects are talking about our competitors, bad content on Forbes or whatever the thing is, you know, and you started by mentioning Reddit and Wikipedia. I don't think those are the main places. If you simply ask AI where it's learning about your brand or tell AI that it's going to that it's your prospect and ask it where it spends time. I doubt if Reddit and Wikipedia are going to be high on the list.

It's usually niche publications, industry sites, there's, you know, all kinds of other places. don't, know, the big general ones, I don't think are necessarily where, I SEO is like that because they care about, you know, popularity and domain authority, but good influencer marketing and digital PR folks are, are niching down and putting their content in very specific places where they have strong evidence that the audience is spending time.

Dane: Yeah, so I feel like we're at this point where like, if we want to give the audience that's watching this, like a parting thought about, hey, after what we just talked about, video and AI, here's like some things that you can do now to start to move the needle, maybe do some internal education, get those ideas in front of your CEO that are actually going to get you some budget to do the things that you know are going to help. Do you have a sense of like, what are the things that they need to hear for a next step?

And it could be your upcoming webinar.

Andy: Well, there's lots of webinars coming up. But I would say that the very...

Improvements digital marketing could go from the bottom of the funnel upwards, so focus on the bottom of the funnel first. Make sure your calls to action work hard and that your pages are detailed and that they do good objection handling. Do conversion optimization first and then think about the channels such as search and do search optimization. So a higher converting page gets better performance from any marketer from any visitor that came from any traffic source and.

It's those those those key messages on those pages that train the AI why you're legit. So if you do good conversion optimization, then you're improving performance for every type of visitor from wherever they happen to come. And you're you're helping to train AI to be a sales rep for your brand. That I think is the future of digital. It's bottom up conversion first, because those conversion elements are partly what what AI is training on that that is.

And I've never seen a website that didn't have huge holes in its ability to answer questions, handle objections, and provide supportive evidence.

Dane: Yeah, so what I'm hearing is fix your leaky bucket first, then go build out your content empire to get the breadcrumbs back to where you want them.

Andy: One of my favorite metaphors you just use. I sometimes say it another way. Fix the mousetrap and then add cheese. Traffic first is a weird idea. Yeah.

Dane: Right. That's it. Right. And video is the best kind of cheese. We've already established that. So for my own land.

Andy: And it makes a more powerful mousetrap. That's right. It improves conversion rates. Absolutely. It checks all the boxes.

Dane: Well, there you have it folks. From Andy Crestedina and myself, a little insight on how to win this AI search war, content war that we're all up against and feed this beast so we don't fall into obscurity and invisibility in the new marketplace. So thanks again to Andy Crestedina for sharing your wisdom. And if people want to find you, I think they probably know how to find you, but probably LinkedIn and your website, Orbit Media, I guess are probably the best places to go. Anything else you want to add?

Andy: That's pretty much it, Dane. Thanks for having me on. anyone, and if you listen to this and you want to connect so we can exchange messages, the blue button on LinkedIn says follow. You can skip that. There's some dots. If you can find the connect button, you're welcome to use that and just mention that you heard the show.

Dane: Well, thanks again, Andy. I hope that helped everybody. See you next time.